Mass Tort Update from the Experts

Steve Smith, Andrew Johnson, Don Worley and Jim Onder prvide listeners with an update on what’s happening in the world of mass torts.

TRANSCRIPT 7 00:01:31.410 –> 00:01:42.120 Steve Smith: So hello everybody. It’s a pleasure to be on here when we were discussing putting together a webinar to kind of go over mass torts update on some of the litigations 8 00:01:42.690 –> 00:01:49.050 Steve Smith: We were thinking of some of the best speakers that we could get together on this. And so I’ve asked Anthony Johnson. 9 00:01:49.890 –> 00:01:59.790 Steve Smith: Don worldly. And then we also have Jim honor, who’s going to be joining us a little bit later, he’s tied up mercy bankruptcy that’s involved with talc so he will be joining us 10 00:02:00.540 –> 00:02:08.190 Steve Smith: But it’s an honor and a privilege to have these speakers, because not only are they very involved in mass towards for many years now. 11 00:02:09.690 –> 00:02:25.260 Steve Smith: And, you know, actively taking on cases but you know for the audience. And they all started out, you know, smaller getting involved and have a lot of experience on all aspects of how to be successful in mass torts and have very successful practices today. 12 00:02:26.550 –> 00:02:44.910 Steve Smith: So we’re going to be having Don start out, I’ll share a little insight of what he knows he’s also a poma member and he will be giving updates in regards to a couple of litigations like San tech and three, and I believe hernia match. So Donald, you want to start us off. Sure. 13 00:02:45.750 –> 00:02:58.740 Don Worley: Steve asked me to. Thanks for letting me be on Stephen King and everybody else Eric it pill month I really enjoyed being a part of film where I’ve learned things myself as well. But, uh, yeah. Steve asked me to talk about 14 00:03:00.510 –> 00:03:05.670 Don Worley: My experience with mass torts things that have gone right things that have gone wrong. So we’re going to talk about that first and 15 00:03:06.300 –> 00:03:16.350 Don Worley: I was going to say that it’s people think of. And there’s actually even speakers and seminars that talked about how easy mass torts is and it’s mailbox money, etc. But 16 00:03:17.970 –> 00:03:21.270 Don Worley: I’ve talked about two big losses that I’ve had over the years. 17 00:03:22.560 –> 00:03:26.940 Don Worley: And they both happen before what Tao bear hearings happens so 18 00:03:27.900 –> 00:03:36.420 Don Worley: The safest way I’m going to tell you the safest way to invest in mass torts is once it survived. Now, bear and once it survived any type of federal preemption challenge. 19 00:03:37.050 –> 00:03:49.170 Don Worley: And today, there has never been a masterwork, that is not MTL or JP email that has not settled for something after surviving dal bear and federal preemption now may have been very little like Geraldo 20 00:03:50.070 –> 00:04:01.860 Don Worley: Or other cases, but it has settled for some amount of money after survive that. So there’s two ways to go with mass torts, you can start soon. Like right when something is new and you can get cases. 21 00:04:02.250 –> 00:04:11.670 Don Worley: A lot more cases for a lot less money and Steve could probably talk about that later. But you take the risk of losing it, because if the case is lost the dial bear level. 22 00:04:12.630 –> 00:04:20.100 Don Worley: Or federal preemption level, then you lost that money and then a safer way to do it. And there’s still risk, obviously, as there’s fallout. 23 00:04:20.580 –> 00:04:31.050 Don Worley: Is to wait until after doubt bear is over. And after the federal preemption is over, and then invest, you’re going to get fewer cases for more money, but it’s a safer way. It’s a safer bet. 24 00:04:31.590 –> 00:04:51.450 Don Worley: And so, Steve will talk about that. Also, but two of my big losses, but it was Nexium bone density last next day the FDA came out and said hey asked her zeneca their studies that show that your drug causes bone density loss and plaintiff. So you need to change the warning label. 25 00:04:52.830 –> 00:05:02.040 Don Worley: And so I thought great a warning label change. I’m going to roll the dice and go for it. But the problem was is there are other studies that showed that it didn’t cause anything 26 00:05:02.790 –> 00:05:10.590 Don Worley: And a lot of the experts that we went to wouldn’t commit to it because they said, well, all these people that take it or older. And they have bone density loss anyway. 27 00:05:11.430 –> 00:05:24.330 Don Worley: And also the studies are all over the place. And so we really can’t commit. And so we got one expert to sign on, but he wasn’t truly committed. And so basically, the judge. It was the MTL was set up in Los Angeles. 28 00:05:26.100 –> 00:05:34.410 Don Worley: And then we went went to the dal bear hearing, the judge says, No, I don’t buy it. I’m dismissing the case and striking your expert and dismiss the case. 29 00:05:34.950 –> 00:05:44.400 Don Worley: And we even filed an appeal and we lost up so I lost about a million dollars and Nexium bone density case, the last one. Some of you more familiar with his gadolinium 30 00:05:45.060 –> 00:05:52.710 Don Worley: I spent about $250,000 on gadolinium cases because there had been a gadolinium round one on a different type of injury. 31 00:05:53.490 –> 00:06:02.820 Don Worley: So some of the same injuries, but we were going for brain fog and a few other things that gadolinium causes by staying in your body, or there has been some evidence that it causes 32 00:06:03.990 –> 00:06:09.510 Don Worley: But that was consolidated North Northern California. And that was lost at the 33 00:06:10.920 –> 00:06:21.030 Don Worley: Delaware hearing as well you know there’s we made should go after it again, more of a rifle approach instead of a shotgun approach. Let it caused all these problems and just go for it. Cause this problem. 34 00:06:21.780 –> 00:06:39.930 Don Worley: But that’s another example of loss and I lost $250,000 in that. So is it wrong to get into a case early. No, but do your homework and you have to be a big boy or a big girl and say, I could lose my money, but I’ve done my research on this case and read the articles yourself. Read the studies. 35 00:06:41.700 –> 00:06:47.430 Don Worley: Talk to people talk to your doctor friend, your nurse friend. I have a nurse lawyer in my office they Michelle lidington he told me 36 00:06:48.030 –> 00:06:55.320 Don Worley: Not to do Nexium bone density and I did it last million dollars and she told me not to do is are also because he said the warning is on the label. 37 00:06:55.920 –> 00:07:06.930 Don Worley: And we lost every case of Geraldo and that’s why I settled for very little money average of 35,000 cases. Unless you happen to be in states where I live like Texas and then you had a big discount so 38 00:07:08.400 –> 00:07:12.210 Don Worley: Run it by them and actually listen to their advice like I didn’t 39 00:07:13.440 –> 00:07:22.140 Don Worley: But that’s, that’s some lessons that I’ve learned in mass torts, is that not every case is going to work out. You have to be ready for that now addressing 40 00:07:26.580 –> 00:07:36.780 Don Worley: Addressing the fallout and cases that don’t work out. Here’s another thing that a lot of personal injury lawyers come back to me and say, Hey, I got ripped off by this vendor. 41 00:07:37.260 –> 00:07:51.600 Don Worley: Because I bought 100 cases from them sign cases or 100 leads from them and really only five people had the product or the injury or 10 people or whatever his number number is 42 00:07:53.010 –> 00:08:00.000 Don Worley: And I have to explain you didn’t get ripped off because what they’re signing cases on as criteria wise is 43 00:08:00.660 –> 00:08:08.910 Don Worley: The potential client calling into the call center and they say, Yes, I have hernia mesh and it’s causing me problems. 44 00:08:09.480 –> 00:08:19.050 Don Worley: They get signed up. Well, later, it turns out it’s not the right type of match. Maybe it’s biological match made from that to tip natural tissue and that doesn’t qualify to go forward. 45 00:08:19.590 –> 00:08:30.870 Don Worley: So that’s not the vendors fault for that the client just doesn’t know there’s going to be fallout even after you sign up the cases and it’s a good case like hernia mesh like I bc filter. 46 00:08:31.500 –> 00:08:38.280 Don Worley: Like roundup like Zantac all these cases that are good cases, you’re going to have fall out. What is the fallout from 47 00:08:38.850 –> 00:08:47.760 Don Worley: The client didn’t actually take the drug or doesn’t have a qualified product to go forward or the client signs up with multiple law firms and you have a dual rep problem. 48 00:08:48.390 –> 00:08:53.640 Don Worley: I had one client tell me straight up. I signed up with a bunch of lawyers to see who could get me settlement money first 49 00:08:54.690 –> 00:09:02.160 Don Worley: Or they just forget who their lawyer, as they sign up with someone else. Joe route. They die on you, their family doesn’t want to continue and do all that paperwork. 50 00:09:03.150 –> 00:09:09.690 Don Worley: They go AWOL on the cricket runs out of prepaid minutes phone or whatever it is, but they’re gone. You can’t find them. 51 00:09:10.290 –> 00:09:16.770 Don Worley: And whatever numbers they gave you have emergency contacts, don’t answer either. So they’re still fall out, even if it’s a good case. So that’s 52 00:09:17.310 –> 00:09:20.730 Don Worley: What you have to watch out for as mass torts ways you can lose money. 53 00:09:21.180 –> 00:09:31.260 Don Worley: That’s it. You get dismissed it by Barry, you get dismissed the federal preemption, or you have natural fallout from client to go higher, different lawyer clients who disappeared client to die on you. 54 00:09:31.860 –> 00:09:38.040 Don Worley: Or clients that don’t have a qualified prospect or didn’t actually take the drug because it’s a pharmaceutical case they took a generic drug 55 00:09:38.430 –> 00:09:46.500 Don Worley: Or they thought they took it. It was actually something else, etc. And then one more problem with pharmaceutical drugs is learned intermediary 56 00:09:47.040 –> 00:09:50.490 Don Worley: Like we hadn’t dropped, though, whereas the doctor who prescribed it says 57 00:09:50.880 –> 00:09:58.050 Don Worley: Yeah, I knew about the dangers of it, but it’s still the best thing on the market and i thought was best for the patient and I would still give it to him today. 58 00:09:58.500 –> 00:10:10.920 Don Worley: So then you have learned intermediary, which lets the pharmaceutical company off the hook and that’s what happened in five different trials on Toronto. Actually, one, one, but it got overturned on appeal. So all five cases for last. So 59 00:10:12.480 –> 00:10:19.320 Don Worley: I don’t know if those are necessarily mistakes, but things that are certainly things I’ve learned in mass tours and so 60 00:10:19.830 –> 00:10:27.270 Don Worley: Two different options are getting in early and getting a lot more cases for a lot less money but you take the risk that it doesn’t survive doubt bear federal preemption. 61 00:10:27.570 –> 00:10:33.840 Don Worley: And then once you do survived elberon federal preemption. The cases cost you a little bit more that you have less risk. 62 00:10:34.350 –> 00:10:48.570 Don Worley: But then you still have some risk of fallout of the cases. So that’s, that’s my two cents on my backstory. I don’t know if of getting the mass towards and some things I’ve learned from our story. So I don’t know if Steve wants to chime in about the case acquisition issue. 63 00:10:51.450 –> 00:10:57.480 Steve Smith: So I mean I’ll chime in a little real quick on one of the things I was going to kind of cover on mine, but I can cover it now. 64 00:10:58.380 –> 00:11:05.970 Steve Smith: Your attrition rate is everything and mass torts and just like Don said you kind of start a timeline whenever someone uncovers a brand new tort. 65 00:11:06.390 –> 00:11:13.980 Steve Smith: You’ll start seeing some advertisements for it. And at that point, you know, with your intake calls and everything else, depending on how many clients are out there. 66 00:11:14.250 –> 00:11:23.700 Steve Smith: You know the rate goes anywhere from about like four to $800 if it’s a very large toward that you can kind of acquire these cases under thousand dollars will say for brand new ones. 67 00:11:24.870 –> 00:11:37.020 Steve Smith: But you’re the first one to go out there and market for so the quality is still out there, you can get those top tier cases with really good injuries but like Don said you’re taking on a lot of risk because if it doesn’t pass off are 68 00:11:38.400 –> 00:11:42.870 Steve Smith: You know, or federal preemption, then the case has no legs. It doesn’t go anywhere. 69 00:11:43.830 –> 00:11:52.440 Steve Smith: Or you get in later right and you’re kind of getting picked through cases. So not only is your marketing call is going to be a lot higher. 70 00:11:52.710 –> 00:12:03.150 Steve Smith: But what ends up happening is from the beginning of the litigation is people are marketing forum and firms like Don the order of the medical records and prove the case up and they realize they don’t have an injury. Those cases get rejected. 71 00:12:03.810 –> 00:12:12.270 Steve Smith: Those claims. Don’t go, oh, I don’t have the case. Let me go on with my life. They see another advertisement later on down the road for the same thing. And they go, well, let me try this attorney. 72 00:12:12.720 –> 00:12:19.680 Steve Smith: And it’ll pass your initial criteria and you’re going to go through the same process. So your quality cases start to diminish. 73 00:12:20.160 –> 00:12:29.040 Steve Smith: So there’s a significant balance between when to get in and how to diversify and I’m going to talk about that later with a plan of what I’ve seen its most successful for firms. 74 00:12:30.630 –> 00:12:43.470 Steve Smith: You know, after we kind of get a little bit of the update on the torts. So Don, you want to share some insight on some of the litigations you guys are working on today that you think would be potentially great opportunities for for firms to get involved in 75 00:12:44.370 –> 00:12:48.990 Don Worley: Yeah, I still think Harney a mesh is one of the best ones to do right now and 76 00:12:50.580 –> 00:12:57.570 Don Worley: I think that’s going to be the closest thing to settlement because they’re under settlement discussions, or at least one manufacturer is and 77 00:12:58.740 –> 00:13:07.500 Don Worley: We handle trend basil. Most cases and those ended up pretty good. And I really think the science is there, it’s already survived. I’ll bear. There’s no federal preemption issues and 78 00:13:08.400 –> 00:13:16.110 Don Worley: I truly think hernia MASH is still a good mass tort to invest in. And I think that’s going to close out sooner than anything else. So 79 00:13:18.420 –> 00:13:25.920 Don Worley: That’s my two cents. And I think they’re. I mean, Steve, can probably answer this question better than me, because we’re 100% referral all of our cases come from other firms that 80 00:13:26.280 –> 00:13:38.670 Don Worley: Referred the cases to us, so I can’t say what an acquisition costs, how much it costs to get them to match case, but I still think it’s the best thing to do now. And people ask me, what’s the best in everyone wants to 81 00:13:39.690 –> 00:13:41.190 Don Worley: Do the newest most exciting. 82 00:13:41.190 –> 00:13:42.270 Don Worley: Thinking, it’s going on. 83 00:13:43.680 –> 00:13:44.520 Don Worley: To monitor going to 84 00:13:45.690 –> 00:13:46.500 Don Worley: Jimmy there. 85 00:13:46.740 –> 00:13:48.660 Jim Onder: Yeah, I thought, I thought it was on 86 00:13:50.490 –> 00:13:52.470 Jim Onder: Hold on. Sorry about that. 87 00:13:53.520 –> 00:13:55.350 Steve Smith: You got an echo there, Jim. Yeah. 88 00:13:55.380 –> 00:13:59.430 Jim Onder: No, I, I was one twice. Apparently, but the other one. You weren’t saying me 89 00:14:04.410 –> 00:14:05.400 Steve Smith: So, 90 00:14:07.530 –> 00:14:21.210 Steve Smith: So real quick, Don, on that note to, you know, I think if anybody’s seen any of the webinars that we’ve done for Broughton partners or if anyone has been on a call with me. I’ve got a lot of love and excitement over 91 00:14:21.300 –> 00:14:22.290 Over Zantac 92 00:14:23.340 –> 00:14:23.940 Steve Smith: All the firms. 93 00:14:24.420 –> 00:14:39.210 Steve Smith: On this, on this panel or accepting those cases and to kind of China, talk about with getting involved in certain ports, the timing of it. I think the intake is a very unique opportunity because you’ve got something that’s such a large 94 00:14:39.360 –> 00:14:39.900 There’s a large 95 00:14:41.100 –> 00:14:43.560 Steve Smith: Products been out there for over 30 years on the market. 96 00:14:44.910 –> 00:14:56.850 Steve Smith: And it’s not like oh just increases the chance or likelihood of getting cancer, the FDA has evaluated this and realize that the compound is breaking down to MDMA. 97 00:14:57.750 –> 00:15:15.450 Steve Smith: In the earlier stages of not only in the in the digestive system, but from how it’s being stored and shipped. All right. So if anybody knows anything about MDMA MDMA is only used on this planet is to cause cancer tumors. So if they’re ever working on a guinea pig and 98 00:15:15.630 –> 00:15:15.990 You want 99 00:15:17.160 –> 00:15:18.120 Steve Smith: To see the period. 100 00:15:18.390 –> 00:15:38.370 Steve Smith: Using human and this is what’s happening. So when you look at the packaging for Zantac and you see Zantac for heartburn really with what we have today label should be chain phase and tech for cancer and you know it’s in the earlier stages. So like Don says it hasn’t passed Albert 101 00:15:40.050 –> 00:15:51.450 Steve Smith: But you’ve got the FDA now who’s not fighting this they’ve thrown in the towel. So you said this is it safe for human consumption. Science is constantly evolving we’re learning more and 102 00:15:51.450 –> 00:15:53.400 Steve Smith: More Wrong answer. Types of 103 00:15:55.200 –> 00:16:10.800 Steve Smith: Cases that some of these leading firms would try today. And there’s such a large pool of these cases. So since it’s early on. This is more of a longer play to where firm could get involved in diversifying acquire some of these cases and get them at a lower cost point 104 00:16:11.970 –> 00:16:26.490 Steve Smith: And good good quality piece and feel confident about it. So just to kind of chime a little bit on Zantac for all of you guys because I’m very passionate about it. I could talk for hours and hours, but I try to give the higher level, you know, view of it, it’s a unique opportunity very unique. 105 00:16:27.810 –> 00:16:31.260 Don Worley: Yeah, yeah, we are doing Zantac as well. Like Steve saying, and that’s 106 00:16:32.310 –> 00:16:37.140 Don Worley: We wouldn’t be in it. If we didn’t believe in it and didn’t think that it’s going to be a case. 107 00:16:38.220 –> 00:16:42.480 Don Worley: It’s just that going back to what I said before, when you get in before dal bear before 108 00:16:44.130 –> 00:16:52.440 Don Worley: Any other hearings where it could be dismissed, then you’re just have a little bit more risk, but you’re going to get a lot more cases for a lot less price, but yes. 109 00:16:52.860 –> 00:17:00.000 Don Worley: The science on science and tech is very strong and we jumped in it because I thought, we’re going to be able to recover. So I do think it is. 110 00:17:00.600 –> 00:17:12.930 Don Worley: Same with 3am. We’re also in 3am and that has not survived Albury at St. Same position and get more cases for a cheaper price but Zantac we were big believer in and review the science and 111 00:17:13.260 –> 00:17:14.340 We’re going forward one 112 00:17:15.540 –> 00:17:21.390 Don Worley: But hernia mashed hernia mentioned obviously filters and each are our biggest dockets that my firm has 113 00:17:22.530 –> 00:17:30.240 Don Worley: But we are. I have gotten into Zantac and also 3am but those are still in early stages and with the MDS just recently being formed. 114 00:17:31.170 –> 00:17:37.470 Steve Smith: Yeah. So Don just the sum it up real quick so out of the ones you just listed, you know, hernia mesh. I know that I 115 00:17:37.920 –> 00:17:45.270 Steve Smith: talked to a lot of firms about getting involved in that. And it’s a very mature one. So you got a lot less of a risk involvement and then plus it’s a device. 116 00:17:45.660 –> 00:17:56.490 Steve Smith: Right, so you have easier easier causation, but as far as risk levels, you know, once you’ve acquired good quality cases Ernie mesh is a sound investment, it’s, it’s something that good to diversify and 117 00:17:57.930 –> 00:18:01.110 Steve Smith: I always preach everybody diversify as much as you can. 118 00:18:03.180 –> 00:18:15.210 Steve Smith: Well, when you say it’s kind of a good opportunity of firms looking to get involved to split themselves between something like hernia mash and Zantac if they take their funds and getting to both of those. 119 00:18:16.500 –> 00:18:28.380 Steve Smith: The hernia match kind of overcome many levels of risk of what potentially could happen on this and tech and then if there’s a both of them are successful, then you have a really good upside 120 00:18:29.520 –> 00:18:35.790 Don Worley: Yeah, that’s a great way to do it. You know, just your risk tolerance, you have, you can only invest in hernia mash and 121 00:18:36.060 –> 00:18:39.360 Don Worley: Sort of like buying a blue chip stocks you could blend it like a 122 00:18:39.750 –> 00:18:48.030 Don Worley: Mutual fund and you could get something that you think is going to settle soon like hurry and mash and I think Tao junk can speak the talent I think can talk might be 123 00:18:48.450 –> 00:19:01.170 Don Worley: Closer than before, but you get something that you think is going to settle soon and then blend it with a new case that just started. I think that’s a good blend for it, as opposed to just picking something that’s brand new and putting all your money in the brand new. 124 00:19:01.650 –> 00:19:02.130 Don Worley: Toward 125 00:19:02.250 –> 00:19:03.870 Jim Onder: That’s where you risk, you know, 126 00:19:04.350 –> 00:19:13.110 Don Worley: Having a lower return. It’s going to be a longer term investment and it may not even survived bear but Zantac would be a great blend to buy with when you’re buying something 127 00:19:14.130 –> 00:19:23.490 Don Worley: That’s more mature tour like hernia masher obviously filter. You can you can still get it’s just one of the MDS has been closed due to global settlement. 128 00:19:24.510 –> 00:19:37.950 Don Worley: That was good for certain types of cases not so good for other types of cases. So I VC is not too late, but it’s still better to do. One of the other towards, in my opinion, like Ernie a master of talk as you’re closer to 129 00:19:39.780 –> 00:19:42.870 Don Worley: Completeness, and then I VC filter. 130 00:19:45.000 –> 00:19:57.240 Steve Smith: So I put I’ll put it there is one of those where many firms have cases coming in organically, or they see something coming in. It’s really great to put a home in right on and send cases over to a firm like yours. 131 00:19:57.810 –> 00:20:04.680 Steve Smith: As far as people starting out at someone had like $250,000 and they’re like, what should I put it in. Should I go after I VC. 132 00:20:05.370 –> 00:20:17.910 Steve Smith: Think that as one of you almost missed the boat a little bit on and it’d be better to go and like hernia MASH, you know, per se or or something like that where you’re going up against certain issues where some of the manufacturers. 133 00:20:17.910 –> 00:20:18.360 Jim Onder: That make up 134 00:20:19.770 –> 00:20:21.720 Steve Smith: A very resolved, and that can be problematic. 135 00:20:22.440 –> 00:20:26.070 Don Worley: Yeah, and obviously filter to recently, the defendant, you know, 136 00:20:26.790 –> 00:20:34.740 Don Worley: We’ve always taken the position. These are ticking time bombs. So if it’s inside of you and I and I pay for a CT scan and it shows that 137 00:20:35.130 –> 00:20:46.230 Don Worley: The client has an obviously filter. That’s not where it’s supposed to be. Or perhaps it’s broken, or perhaps it’s getting lodged somewhere. To me, that’s an injury case because that is 138 00:20:47.100 –> 00:20:54.210 Don Worley: You know that that’s a ticking time bomb inside of them that could at any point particles of it could go into a vital organ and caused instant death. 139 00:20:54.660 –> 00:21:01.830 Don Worley: And so they need to have a removed and the FDA basically said they don’t really do much positive so they should come out anyway because a removable filters. 140 00:21:02.310 –> 00:21:13.950 Don Worley: And the defendants have recently tried to take the position of offering very little money on those cases are arguing that those are not injury cases because as we sit here today that person has not been injured by the IPC filter so 141 00:21:14.700 –> 00:21:24.570 Don Worley: Yeah, obviously filter. So like Steve said if you’re getting them organically. They’re coming in. We’re still taking them. In fact, we’re the only permanent one of the only firms in the country doing the Greenfield permanent filters. 142 00:21:25.650 –> 00:21:35.940 Don Worley: Made our Boston Scientific but we’re still taking them and doing them. But there’s a lot of issues about the defendant taking the stand that we haven’t killed you. Yeah, so we don’t want to pay on it. Yeah. 143 00:21:37.230 –> 00:21:43.350 Don Worley: So taking that position, and also the fact that one of the MDS is closed. I do think that like Steve said 144 00:21:44.520 –> 00:21:50.280 Don Worley: A more mature tour like talk are hurting and mash would be a good blend to put in with with something new. 145 00:21:51.480 –> 00:21:52.320 Don Worley: That’s just starting out. 146 00:22:00.690 –> 00:22:01.710 Don Worley: I can’t hear you see 147 00:22:02.520 –> 00:22:03.060 Oops. Thank you. 148 00:22:05.220 –> 00:22:11.820 Steve Smith: So thanks, Don. Thanks for the insight there, Jim. We’re going to have you kind of chime in a little bit and add some of 149 00:22:12.330 –> 00:22:17.130 Steve Smith: Your insight or experience that you’ve learned from the years of being a mass tours that you could share with the audience. 150 00:22:17.430 –> 00:22:31.440 Steve Smith: And also let people know some of the exciting news. It’s, you know, with your involvement around up you know where your takes that for today and how and what’s going on with that. And you know why firms would, you know, be interested in and talcum what you have going on. 151 00:22:32.700 –> 00:22:33.180 Jim Onder: Sure. 152 00:22:34.350 –> 00:22:44.580 Jim Onder: In terms of insight, you know, my biggest insight done, you know, picking up picking the right ones. I think it’s so easy to go to these seminars and these meetings and 153 00:22:45.120 –> 00:22:59.790 Jim Onder: Start talking to one return he talks to another to another. And our next thing you know Joe will tell you, Oh, I really like XYZ toward and then Bill will say the same thing and Susie and on and on and on. And at the end of the day. 154 00:23:01.860 –> 00:23:04.710 Jim Onder: And when you start asking them about it. They really don’t know anything about it. 155 00:23:05.340 –> 00:23:15.420 Jim Onder: So I think he can be really, really careful on who’s you know whose advice you take on what on what mass torts to get into. And I think it’s really important to actually like Dan said, look at the medical literature. 156 00:23:16.590 –> 00:23:25.440 Jim Onder: If at any point. I mean, Steve, I know you always have the medical literature for your people, you know, to share it with them read it, look it over. 157 00:23:26.010 –> 00:23:32.820 Jim Onder: Talk to doctors make sure you think you’re going to be able to survive. Albert on, make sure that you think you know 158 00:23:33.690 –> 00:23:45.000 Jim Onder: It’s credible the significant increased relative risk. You know, you got to look at the factors. I’m always willing to share information on any of the towards were involved in, and frankly even the towards I’m not involved in 159 00:23:45.930 –> 00:23:56.940 Jim Onder: You know, so look at the medical literature, number one. Number two, let’s apply some common sense, you know, let’s face it, something like I BC, you know, they’re going to put a device inside you. They don’t break pretty common sense. 160 00:23:57.840 –> 00:24:07.560 Jim Onder: You know talcum powder you know you’re putting it over your body. It shouldn’t have a specimen. I, you know, so I think the key is you know obviously picking the right ones. 161 00:24:08.070 –> 00:24:12.720 Jim Onder: The other thing is dealing with the right vendors, especially at the end of cases like right now. 162 00:24:13.470 –> 00:24:18.690 Jim Onder: talcum powder my prediction is it’ll probably settle within the next by the end of the year. And we’ll go into why in a second. 163 00:24:19.200 –> 00:24:24.990 Jim Onder: But you know you get at the end of a tour and there’s a feeding frenzy and everybody wants to get a lot of cases. 164 00:24:25.410 –> 00:24:37.440 Jim Onder: And you know, I think we’ve all had experience at diamond. I’m sure you have. I have where, you know, you go with a vendor that you really don’t know because the price is a few dollars cheaper and next thing you know, 165 00:24:38.340 –> 00:24:43.770 Jim Onder: They’re not legitimate cases. I know a lot of us, you know, our firm was co lead on the yes MTL 166 00:24:44.340 –> 00:24:52.110 Jim Onder: At the very end. Back then, there were companies like yours, you would buy sign cases, you would buy leads and we would call up these leads and they had 167 00:24:52.500 –> 00:25:01.170 Jim Onder: They said everything right. It sounded like a perfect case we sent them a contract medical authorizations we requested the medical and not a single lead worked out. 168 00:25:01.410 –> 00:25:06.480 Jim Onder: What I from last year and a half million dollars. I know another friend of mine lost over a million dollars. 169 00:25:06.720 –> 00:25:15.930 Jim Onder: Buying bad leads by bad cases. So I think my piece of advice is go with a reputable vendor and we brought in partners is obviously one of the largest stuff. 170 00:25:16.320 –> 00:25:28.290 Jim Onder: Out there their cases are good and they’re not engaging and questionable tactics. So I think it’s really important to go with a reputable vendor, not necessarily the cheapest go with go with someone you know and trust. 171 00:25:29.790 –> 00:25:39.960 Jim Onder: So, I mean, that’s the biggest piece of advice and getting cases. And you know, I think, is, you know, last is the last thing you want to do is go spending money and find out. None of the cases workout. 172 00:25:41.220 –> 00:25:42.810 Steve Smith: Jim cut you off for one second. 173 00:25:42.810 –> 00:25:44.820 Steve Smith: Yeah, on that so 174 00:25:45.060 –> 00:25:58.740 Steve Smith: Just so everyone’s aware we for over the last couple weeks have not been taking in telco orders and why right with all this frenzy that’s going on. And people wanting tower cases and Jim’s getting ready to tell all the exciting things of what’s going on. Why on earth are 175 00:25:59.190 –> 00:26:06.600 Steve Smith: Turning down business design towel cases. The reason is because with all of our clientele and the relationships we have in the space and our revenue. 176 00:26:08.370 –> 00:26:14.040 Steve Smith: The second Johnson and Johnson, you know, took their product off the shelves everyone came to us with orders. 177 00:26:14.460 –> 00:26:25.860 Steve Smith: And you have bandwidth. You can only find out so many real cases when you’re selling signing up legitimate cases. So in order to make sure that we build our orders in a timeframe we 178 00:26:26.220 –> 00:26:33.240 Steve Smith: Put it on pause as part of the new orders. Now we’re about to start opening this backup. But I was just on a phone call with a firm yesterday. 179 00:26:33.570 –> 00:26:44.100 Steve Smith: It was we were talking to intact and they’re asking us about talc and how their exact mouth. They said, oh why another lead vendor that reached out to us and they’re Tao cases or third year price. 180 00:26:44.490 –> 00:26:48.330 Steve Smith: And their guarantee and medical records. So if it doesn’t mean medical records are going to replace it. 181 00:26:49.920 –> 00:26:56.790 Steve Smith: For me, and anyone on this phone. You just gotta laugh at that because telcos probably got, you know, one of the 182 00:26:57.600 –> 00:27:05.310 Steve Smith: It’s a higher fall off. You get medical records of actually proofing up the case. This is not an easy, simple, you know, case right 183 00:27:05.760 –> 00:27:12.300 Steve Smith: And all the gate there a third of the price and then they’re making unrealistic unmeasurable guarantees on the back. 184 00:27:12.780 –> 00:27:18.720 Steve Smith: These with experience should be complete red flags of saying this is absolutely not. So, and I want to work with. 185 00:27:19.080 –> 00:27:29.610 Steve Smith: You know, but for a lot of people that are newer in the space. They kind of see these things and they think that apples are apples. It’s like, oh, well, in writing their criteria looks the same as yours. And they’re actually offering more you’re just trying to rob me 186 00:27:30.930 –> 00:27:34.680 Steve Smith: You know, whenever you’ve got a tour that has a lot of demand like this. 187 00:27:35.040 –> 00:27:46.380 Steve Smith: And you’re seeing that it’s, you know, oh wow I really want to get involved and go after these either when fraudulent lead companies come out of the woodworks and pray on this and they’ll tell you whatever you’d be like, oh yeah, give me your budget. I’ll get you the cases. 188 00:27:46.860 –> 00:27:51.240 Steve Smith: And I know I’ve got an experienced over the years of getting burned anyone that’s been the space. 189 00:27:51.240 –> 00:27:51.630 For 190 00:27:52.860 –> 00:27:59.670 Steve Smith: From from bad vendors be leery and be cautious. Make sure you you do your due diligence whenever you’re looking to acquire cases. 191 00:28:00.810 –> 00:28:03.390 Jim Onder: Right it know exactly. And again, 192 00:28:04.590 –> 00:28:07.260 Jim Onder: I don’t want to sound like an advocate for brought in partners but 193 00:28:08.430 –> 00:28:15.480 Jim Onder: You know, as opposed to anyone else because I’m just here to give information. But the reality is, you know, it’s important that your vendor. 194 00:28:15.960 –> 00:28:26.010 Jim Onder: Takes precautions. So for example, you have like brought in partners. I know that you guys checked. You know, you know, check the incoming calls incoming new leads against 195 00:28:26.790 –> 00:28:31.290 Jim Onder: Other people you signed up in the past to make sure you’re, you’re not signing up and do a rough situation. 196 00:28:31.530 –> 00:28:36.960 Jim Onder: You check to make sure you know if it’s the case that was rejected in the past, you know, by the clients you know like call in 197 00:28:37.260 –> 00:28:46.290 Jim Onder: They get rejected because they say x, y, and z. So guess what they call back and say, ABC instead. Next time I mean not all vendors are reputable 198 00:28:46.530 –> 00:28:52.800 Jim Onder: And, you know, and reject those cases I know for you know obviously I’ve been dealing with you a lot on time now. 199 00:28:53.190 –> 00:29:01.680 Jim Onder: And I know for a fact you guys go out and you if someone’s been rejected you from the based on the first phone call you reject them on the second phone call, even if they change their story. 200 00:29:01.980 –> 00:29:05.040 Jim Onder: So whereas I know there are a lot of vendors that don’t do that. 201 00:29:05.970 –> 00:29:14.100 Jim Onder: We could we use cases in all the time that you know people have been rejected multiple, multiple times by other firms and, you know, they’ll just keep coming back. 202 00:29:15.000 –> 00:29:23.430 Jim Onder: So it’s really that’s really, really important. But in terms of town. The reason I talk to so good is. I mean, I would, I found the second tower case in the United States. 203 00:29:24.480 –> 00:29:31.770 Jim Onder: We’ve been added. Since 2013 14 ish, you know, over the, you know, we’ve been involved in first six trials. 204 00:29:32.940 –> 00:29:38.760 Jim Onder: At the end of the day, though, at this point, it’s pretty clear we we’ve survived. We survived Albert 205 00:29:39.270 –> 00:29:46.080 Jim Onder: In the federal MTL so all those cases are going to trial. They’ve not pulled top from the market. But most importantly, 206 00:29:46.920 –> 00:29:53.550 Jim Onder: The inverse tags as sole supplier of town to Johnson and Johnson file for bankruptcy. 207 00:29:54.060 –> 00:30:00.180 Jim Onder: Yeah, and you know, of course, when a company files for bankruptcy. What are we hold your shift. We then go after the parent companies. 208 00:30:00.450 –> 00:30:12.180 Jim Onder: Well, under bankruptcy, there’s what’s known as the channel the injunction whereby the parent companies can contribute to the trust of the break or entity for the payment of future claims and if they do that. 209 00:30:13.590 –> 00:30:24.480 Jim Onder: You can’t sue them anymore. The soul claims against the trust. Well, you don’t have to be in the bankruptcy, they have that as an option, JJ has the option that they can come into the amorous bankruptcy. 210 00:30:25.260 –> 00:30:30.420 Jim Onder: Contribute to the trust for the payment of past and future claims and at that point they 211 00:30:31.500 –> 00:30:46.170 Jim Onder: They can get immunity from suits into the future. Eddie people people in the future, who develop ovarian cancer their sole remedy, it would be against the trust. So the bottom line is JJ has a unique opportunity right now to come in and 212 00:30:47.550 –> 00:31:04.950 Jim Onder: To come in and settle. There are several their liabilities and and you know, avoid another 1020 3040 years of viability and if they you know it by just suddenly now of course in order to get, get the benefit of that they have to 213 00:31:06.630 –> 00:31:12.990 Jim Onder: You know, they have to do it as part of the immerse bankruptcy and immersive submitted their 214 00:31:13.890 –> 00:31:19.800 Jim Onder: You know their bankruptcy plan. We’re still working on it. Today I am on the creditors committee, I just got off of a three hour phone call. 215 00:31:20.490 –> 00:31:31.590 Jim Onder: That that plan is going to probably be approved by the end of the year. So my prediction is that JJ will come step to the plate sick of channel injunction. By the end of the year end application will settle 216 00:31:36.300 –> 00:31:36.510 Steve Smith: Hey, 217 00:31:36.570 –> 00:31:38.010 Jim Onder: What are you, what are your thoughts, Steve. 218 00:31:39.030 –> 00:31:46.710 Steve Smith: Um, I love talc from what’s happening right now. A lot of what you just said right there. The litigations mature to a point. 219 00:31:47.370 –> 00:32:00.360 Steve Smith: I know that New Jersey hasn’t been very favorable for us. Thanks for all your help. St. Louis was really great. And we get, we got some good things there j and j. It’s a game of tug of war right j&j kind of got some good grounds, when they got the MTL 220 00:32:01.470 –> 00:32:14.610 Steve Smith: But when with what happened recently in Dover. I think that was a huge win and that landed the the first domino, there’s a bunch of cases that were filed individually and state courts to spread them out. 221 00:32:15.570 –> 00:32:28.440 Steve Smith: But you know Jane. Jane never easy opponent them pulling a product off the shelves, I think, was, you know, the first sign of just saying, like, okay, they realize that they’ve got to get out of this and come up with a good strategy. 222 00:32:29.070 –> 00:32:34.800 Steve Smith: So when you were telling me I WERE BEFORE ANY OF THIS HAPPENED WITH with Albert 223 00:32:35.460 –> 00:32:40.920 Steve Smith: You were saying I have a feeling, they’re going to attach themselves as bankruptcy. This is what’s going to happen and it’s going to resolve. 224 00:32:41.160 –> 00:32:46.980 Steve Smith: Awesome 21. And I thought, you’re crazy. Like this is telecom Johnson and Johnson, this will be going on for 10 years 225 00:32:47.850 –> 00:32:54.390 Steve Smith: But you know exactly what you said is transpiring I’m the only advice I can say is, you know, 226 00:32:54.780 –> 00:33:07.170 Steve Smith: For anybody that already has how cases. And there’s some people that have been involved in this seven years. I know that’s how long I’ve been marketing for them. It seems like suffering the ballpark around that this is all great calc as a whole. 227 00:33:08.370 –> 00:33:12.480 Steve Smith: I think that for people going out and looking to acquire these cases. 228 00:33:13.260 –> 00:33:25.320 Steve Smith: It’s still, if you look at your cost points timeframe value of cases it’s attractive, but of all towards this is the one that you have to be the most leery with when marketing. 229 00:33:25.740 –> 00:33:33.450 Steve Smith: You have to have the right expectations. And if someone tells you that they’re going to get you contracts for 1500 $2,000 run away. 230 00:33:34.770 –> 00:33:41.520 Steve Smith: And everything comes down to criteria, right, like anything. It’s really what do you screen. What are you doing to prove these cases up 231 00:33:41.820 –> 00:33:50.760 Steve Smith: These claims for the most part for it. I don’t want to say that the outright lie. I know we’ve all had this discussion, but there’s a lot of claims that will call on a call during 232 00:33:51.150 –> 00:34:01.080 Steve Smith: Can tell you they have ovarian cancer. And once you click record you turn you find out it’s a system their ovaries are different type of cancer and they were confused. 233 00:34:01.980 –> 00:34:20.100 Steve Smith: So you’ve got to measure these things and then certain key questions that you have to ask, you know, like, was there a surgical procedure involves, you know, did you see, did you have treatment for your cancer, things like this can help your attrition rate on these cases. So 234 00:34:20.130 –> 00:34:20.370 Jim Onder: I mean, 235 00:34:20.610 –> 00:34:24.240 Steve Smith: We have to have realistic expectations of what these cases are going to call students 236 00:34:25.260 –> 00:34:25.950 Steve Smith: Today, 237 00:34:27.180 –> 00:34:35.490 Steve Smith: If today. Someone’s got you know $50,000 to put in a mass torts, and this is a significant amount of money for them and they go, what should I put it in. 238 00:34:35.910 –> 00:34:43.680 Steve Smith: I wouldn’t say that taupe would be like the best bet for you right but if you want something that’s a strong tour or a lot of 239 00:34:44.670 –> 00:34:54.930 Steve Smith: Good branding and your local areas. This is something to kind of utilize your, your local area marketing and screen people and acquire some of these cases, and definitely get them over to Jim 240 00:34:55.350 –> 00:35:05.460 Steve Smith: And then if you do, you know, have the have the funds to go after it talc is very, very attractive, but definitely before working with anybody on it and any aspect. 241 00:35:05.700 –> 00:35:14.460 Steve Smith: Make sure you talked to a lot of other people in the space that are knowledgeable and talented seven years of experience to kind of guide you on what 242 00:35:17.220 –> 00:35:18.510 Don Worley: Jumped into and 243 00:35:19.830 –> 00:35:25.320 Don Worley: Not be worried or freaked out about bankruptcy because I know 244 00:35:26.490 –> 00:35:32.190 Don Worley: Mentioning bankruptcy lawyer. Why would I jump into something when filing bankruptcy, but 245 00:35:35.820 –> 00:35:39.150 Don Worley: Set aside the money for the settlements to recent examples. 246 00:35:40.200 –> 00:35:55.830 Don Worley: One right now is cases and also the Boy Scouts of America cases where they filed bankruptcy money there and it’s just submitting a claim form to get the money so that doesn’t mean there’s not gonna be any money. It’s just gonna be a planning process for a bankruptcy court so that’s 247 00:35:56.940 –> 00:35:59.880 Don Worley: Just because you’re using bankruptcy as a 248 00:36:01.530 –> 00:36:02.790 Don Worley: Way to deal with claims. 249 00:36:06.690 –> 00:36:08.070 Jim Onder: Exactly, yep, that 250 00:36:09.240 –> 00:36:15.420 Jim Onder: Yeah, exactly. Then, you know, sing with, you know, Roundup is facing that right now to I mean it. 251 00:36:15.750 –> 00:36:28.230 Jim Onder: You know, they’re trying to figure out a way to cut off their future liability and a channel injunction through a bankruptcy is usually a very, very good method of doing it, they said, you know, defense, it’s in bankruptcy. Don’t let that scare you off. 252 00:36:29.430 –> 00:36:39.870 Jim Onder: You know, they create funds and fund them. And as a result, you know, you get paid. It’s just through the bankruptcy as a method of cutting off future claims or at least 253 00:36:40.920 –> 00:36:44.400 Jim Onder: Being able to predict their viability and how much they’re going to own this future claims. 254 00:36:47.580 –> 00:37:03.780 Steve Smith: Alright so Jim on one last note before we switch over from all your years of experience, right, like when it comes to like the business of mass torts, I think you’re you’re one of the godfathers of it. What type of advice could you give to people that are starting out. 255 00:37:05.310 –> 00:37:13.710 Steve Smith: In in looking at some of these cases, or what the What insight, could you go, what’s the most valuable things that you’ve learned from when you started where you’re at today. 256 00:37:14.910 –> 00:37:15.240 Jim Onder: Sure. 257 00:37:17.520 –> 00:37:18.780 Don Worley: father and grandfather 258 00:37:19.320 –> 00:37:20.070 Yeah. 259 00:37:23.610 –> 00:37:31.980 Jim Onder: No, I, you know, again, I think the key is early on as you as you handle your first one. A lot of times what people will do is they’ll tie in with other firms. 260 00:37:32.760 –> 00:37:40.590 Jim Onder: You know, you know, and work with like Don arrived, who both of whom I know are very good at helping out new young lawyers get started into mass torts. 261 00:37:41.460 –> 00:37:52.710 Jim Onder: A lot of times people will refer to me or though, you know, they’ll start gambling, the cells and then say, hey, Jim, can I get a little help we’re always happy to do that. And we’re always happy to help people get in and get involved. 262 00:37:53.820 –> 00:37:59.100 Jim Onder: You know, if you want to work with this great if you just want some advice. I’m happy to give you the advice and and what you should do but 263 00:37:59.640 –> 00:38:04.860 Jim Onder: Again, I think your point about diversification is important. I mean, for example, when I first got into tout 264 00:38:05.670 –> 00:38:13.860 Jim Onder: You know, I was getting cases for 345 hundred dollars apiece. But then again, I was in before anybody else. Now they’re, you know, four or $5,000 apiece. 265 00:38:14.700 –> 00:38:24.990 Jim Onder: So I personally if the medicine strong and you have you have faith in the litigation. It’s great to get an early, but if you’re just getting started. 266 00:38:25.470 –> 00:38:37.590 Jim Onder: You don’t want to get into litigation and have to wait 567 years for something to settle. So as that Don was suggesting earlier, it’s good to get into a more mature toward once it passes Talbert it slam dunk. 267 00:38:38.340 –> 00:38:46.470 Jim Onder: That, again, at that point, the prices go way up to. So I think the key is the key. If you’re getting started is to tie in with reputable lawyers. 268 00:38:47.190 –> 00:38:52.890 Jim Onder: When you go to these conferences. Don’t just assume everybody who who’s a blowhard out there knows what they’re talking about. 269 00:38:53.580 –> 00:38:59.010 Jim Onder: Question them ask questions and find out. Who are these people who really know what they’re doing. And then from there. 270 00:38:59.880 –> 00:39:08.280 Jim Onder: Diversify, you know, again, if I’m starting out, I think I would probably diversify between, you know, a group of mature cases like 271 00:39:08.670 –> 00:39:18.240 Jim Onder: Don says with Matt with matches good mature, it’s going to pay. How good mature, it’s going to pay, look at the potential value of cases to those sometimes I find that 272 00:39:18.540 –> 00:39:27.450 Jim Onder: The cost of of the case that that might settle for 50 grand is the same as a cost of case. Then I sell for 250 you got to look at that. Also, 273 00:39:28.140 –> 00:39:40.410 Jim Onder: You know, I think Tao is one that’s going to settle for high dollar just because the medical bills are so so high and it’s such a horrific cancer and ultimately often, unfortunately, a death. 274 00:39:42.090 –> 00:39:51.540 Jim Onder: So I look at that and then you know and and try to get get into some mature torts, but again, Zan text one right now. 275 00:39:52.230 –> 00:39:58.770 Jim Onder: The cases are reasonable. So as part of diversify your portfolio. I probably do some Zantac also to 276 00:39:59.430 –> 00:40:16.770 Jim Onder: You know, while I can still get them cheaper my return on investment ROI. Be good. It’s kind of like a stock portfolio folio like Don said, you know, you want to, you want to diversify. You want to have the right group and the, you know, yeah, the right, the right mix of cases. 277 00:40:18.150 –> 00:40:26.010 Jim Onder: So I did. I think those are my primary primary primary things and then reputable companies are all make all the difference in the world. I mean, 278 00:40:26.790 –> 00:40:38.040 Jim Onder: Yeah I know I had someone the other day was offered to somebody talk cases for $900 apiece. And I asked. I asked. I mean, I know what it costs to get a towel case when we do it ourselves. It costs us, you know, 279 00:40:39.300 –> 00:40:45.810 Jim Onder: Three to four times that. So I know that there’s no way that they’re getting for that number and you got to be leery because you know 280 00:40:46.590 –> 00:40:55.080 Jim Onder: That that these people like Steve said pop up at the end of the litigation and they started out, you know, these, these scams and though, though. 281 00:40:55.650 –> 00:41:05.010 Jim Onder: One of the things I’ll do is approach your clients to and i think i’m i’m convinced that someone can go through the dockets and just intentionally try to sign up, people who are already represented 282 00:41:05.820 –> 00:41:13.650 Jim Onder: In, of course, all these things cause problems. Stay with reputable companies and, you know, the lowest prices and always the best deal 283 00:41:15.420 –> 00:41:26.430 Steve Smith: Thanks for that. All right. And then the final speaker that we have on here is Anthony Johnson. So I’ve known Anthony for many years now and he’s, he can tell you a lot about himself. 284 00:41:27.540 –> 00:41:37.440 Steve Smith: But he’s been very, very successful and and growing a practice from a unique style and it started out like a lot of the people that are tuned into this webinar today. 285 00:41:37.890 –> 00:41:44.940 Steve Smith: Just building generating cases building them up and refer them out to different firms, understanding the importance of partnering with people and 286 00:41:45.720 –> 00:41:57.990 Steve Smith: It’s taken that experience to where he’s at. Today, who has now become Broughton partners in house counsel. So we’ve actually partnered up with them. So Anthony, you got some insight, you’d like to share for the viewers. 287 00:41:58.380 –> 00:42:06.270 Anthony Johnson: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I’m gonna I’m gonna tell you a quick story and I promise is going to apply because it’s kind of think about you know how long, how far we’ve come. 288 00:42:07.170 –> 00:42:15.870 Anthony Johnson: When I introduced a so I kind of bumped into a striker case. And I’ve known Jim almost from the beginning. So you know i think i think Jim Jim’s give me a lot of insight from 289 00:42:16.200 –> 00:42:23.460 Anthony Johnson: You know, helping to guide informations always had that I’ve done since a little bit probably after that, I think, if I met at an event is that we work with both them heavily 290 00:42:23.940 –> 00:42:30.330 Anthony Johnson: And and and that is used to have people you can trust you know Steve you’ve been in as long as I have, I think, or maybe longer 291 00:42:30.750 –> 00:42:34.470 Anthony Johnson: And we’ve we’ve known who can broaden those guys for a long time as well and 292 00:42:34.950 –> 00:42:41.310 Anthony Johnson: And, you know, so there’s a lot of trust. I think is a good point that everybody’s making here on who you look look to who you talk to you because 293 00:42:41.790 –> 00:42:50.580 Anthony Johnson: There’s a lot of people that don’t really know shit and there’s about 19 ways to get those business. I don’t. I didn’t ask that I can say that on this, but I’ll try to censor myself, my spouse will 294 00:42:51.570 –> 00:42:57.450 Anthony Johnson: So here’s my story, how quickly you know when I started I was one guy in a closet. 295 00:42:58.170 –> 00:43:12.750 Anthony Johnson: My unique skill, I guess, is I had a few engineering degree. And I know, do a little bit website stuff and I knew it produced leads and cases, you know, small scale. And so, in my mind, I thought, you know, I’m in Arkansas. I’m sitting in a straw hat. I was sitting there until 296 00:43:13.830 –> 00:43:18.630 Anthony Johnson: I was farming, not really. And so, sitting in a closet and I you know I was like, you know, I 297 00:43:19.020 –> 00:43:23.820 Anthony Johnson: I can’t handle this thing you know if I really looked at the client, look what’s best to them. What should I do 298 00:43:24.210 –> 00:43:30.630 Anthony Johnson: And so my, my first theory was like, I’m gonna hack my way towards just getting clients and sending them out to a bunch of different people and diversify. 299 00:43:31.200 –> 00:43:38.670 Anthony Johnson: You know, it’s great strategy. And then as we grew and I went from having 10 cases you know 50 to 100. I said, you know, 300 00:43:39.330 –> 00:43:44.370 Anthony Johnson: This is working great. And I think everything’s working great. From what I hear from everyone. This one, I didn’t know if people very well. 301 00:43:44.820 –> 00:43:53.070 Anthony Johnson: And I said I was. Keep going. I’ll just keep working more firms and more diversification and then what I realized was how man i i want to know what’s going on with educators and so 302 00:43:53.340 –> 00:43:57.570 Anthony Johnson: We started figuring out ways, say, Hey, hey, Jim. Like, how can we get some reporting, how can we get 303 00:43:58.260 –> 00:44:04.440 Anthony Johnson: These things back from other firms and that’s another thing that you brought another part of it as well. And that’s why we started talking was 304 00:44:04.890 –> 00:44:12.750 Anthony Johnson: Was the the path towards actually understanding what’s going on. See, in this fall off right seeing some of the dual rep things the accountability to these marketers 305 00:44:13.380 –> 00:44:21.930 Anthony Johnson: It’s just, it’s really difficult to get. And so you know me as the kind of the rebel in me. I said, you know, I’ll keep pressing it and I’ll keep I’ll get more information and just put more effort behind it. 306 00:44:23.160 –> 00:44:28.890 Anthony Johnson: And that’s about the same time when, you know, we started scaling up and I’ve recently gotten to us yesterday partnership. 307 00:44:28.890 –> 00:44:30.030 Anthony Johnson: With 100 Lindell 308 00:44:30.390 –> 00:44:37.860 Anthony Johnson: He can tell his story I want to tell that one for him, but he comes from tab path where they handled an immense around the cases from docket management standpoint. 309 00:44:38.340 –> 00:44:44.970 Anthony Johnson: And now we’re to that point where, you know, we’re doing some in house, but we’re very, very honest with what we should be doing and what we shouldn’t 310 00:44:45.870 –> 00:44:52.170 Anthony Johnson: But when along the way and along this path of going from one guy with 10s of cases to to now having, you know, 311 00:44:52.680 –> 00:45:02.100 Anthony Johnson: 10s of people with 10s of thousands of cases that we manage we don’t actually actively litigate all of them, but we managed with a lot of strategic partners. We’ve learned a lot of lessons along the way. 312 00:45:03.210 –> 00:45:09.330 Anthony Johnson: And that’s kind of why we end up getting together is because the difficulty in talking to each one of these terms that you work with. 313 00:45:09.780 –> 00:45:16.320 Anthony Johnson: And then understanding all the science and then knowing who to market for these are all the ways you can get screwed. I’ll use a more PG term. 314 00:45:17.280 –> 00:45:23.460 Anthony Johnson: You know, not knowing the attrition rate and quality and whether your reps and then not knowing whether this criteria for this. 315 00:45:23.850 –> 00:45:31.770 Anthony Johnson: Town, whatever you may recall a case is telling us got a guy selling them for 1000 bucks. But right now, I can tell you when I started I cared about every penny. We spent 316 00:45:32.640 –> 00:45:38.700 Anthony Johnson: We aren’t in the business of scaling up and selling to people, you know, we haven’t done that. And so once I started scaling up, you realize 317 00:45:39.660 –> 00:45:51.270 Anthony Johnson: You know, at a small level. I know what those price points are. And that’s my background, I came from. And when people say things like that. I think they their, their definition of cases, not the same as ours and i think that’s that’s a huge point to make. 318 00:45:52.350 –> 00:45:56.490 Anthony Johnson: And then what we ended up doing, and I’ll copy on the back story short is 319 00:45:56.970 –> 00:46:08.460 Anthony Johnson: What we end up doing was when we got together, I realized, Okay, there’s other half of litigation and there may be more may not even be happy. You know, there’s another part of litigation where you refer this case and you may do it early, early stage talking from like that. 320 00:46:09.510 –> 00:46:13.260 Anthony Johnson: You have yours, where you have to keep up with it, see what’s going on with the litigation. 321 00:46:13.620 –> 00:46:19.380 Anthony Johnson: And law, guys, if you’re visiting your main thing you don’t have time to keep up with the yep time because if you don’t know what they’re doing but 322 00:46:19.860 –> 00:46:28.260 Anthony Johnson: Every case can be handled by one attorney and I don’t care what firm in the entire world you are. That’s not situation. And so what we did when when 323 00:46:28.680 –> 00:46:36.510 Anthony Johnson: Me 100 guy got together, we said okay let’s focus on the parts that were great at and the strategic partnerships we have with great trial lawyers like 324 00:46:36.780 –> 00:46:47.490 Anthony Johnson: You know Jim and Dawn and a great marketing guys like Stephen BP and then what we can do with our systems and technology, we started building systems to our said okay, whenever something comes in. 325 00:46:49.080 –> 00:46:56.550 Anthony Johnson: We can still, you know, provide a lot of value there we can sell with, you know, match any referrals and all that kind of stuff. But let’s be honest with ourselves and say, 326 00:46:56.940 –> 00:47:00.150 Anthony Johnson: All right, let’s watch this go along. Let’s get information with our partners. 327 00:47:00.870 –> 00:47:09.060 Anthony Johnson: Let’s figure out who’s becoming leadership, who’s getting involved in most cases, who tried things, you know, because if you don’t have cases or if you don’t have, you know, 328 00:47:09.330 –> 00:47:16.290 Anthony Johnson: The direct file kind of experience is one of the other. You got you don’t have the leverage as of, you know, working with somebody leverage you know you need to be really be careful. 329 00:47:16.830 –> 00:47:21.510 Anthony Johnson: And. And the other thing is if you know and stiebel has locked recommendations with great firms. 330 00:47:22.260 –> 00:47:30.090 Anthony Johnson: Not, not even a year trying to sell them on. Anyway, I understand, because a lot of good lawyers and we work with you guys and we work with a lot of other guys, too, but 331 00:47:30.510 –> 00:47:37.710 Anthony Johnson: It’s one of those things. If you’re getting in early. Sometimes you might want to manage it and wait and sometimes people send it, send it before we really know who’s involved. 332 00:47:38.130 –> 00:47:42.810 Anthony Johnson: And there’s a lot from that important scientists come out of this bar gabeira has happened before we know what’s going on. 333 00:47:44.010 –> 00:47:50.760 Anthony Johnson: And that takes that takes a lot of systems and functions of processes to be able to hold anything and I think a lot of the reason people don’t 334 00:47:51.060 –> 00:47:55.860 Anthony Johnson: Is because they they don’t have that functionality in the firm when you start talking about holding 10s of thousands of cases. 335 00:47:56.310 –> 00:48:06.390 Anthony Johnson: And so one I wanted to say that’s kind of the background. That was the pain points. So I feel the pain of anyone that’s wanting to get into this anyone thinking about it, you know, it’s good. Every one of my own dollars. When I first started 336 00:48:06.750 –> 00:48:16.380 Anthony Johnson: I went to the diversification process. I went through the coordination with other firms process and it’s painful and I will share every way I did it with anyone that wants to learn like Jim was saying. 337 00:48:17.430 –> 00:48:22.590 Anthony Johnson: And I’m more than happy to give you the roadblocks and the problems, but also the solutions and and 338 00:48:22.980 –> 00:48:31.080 Anthony Johnson: You know, every, every way that you have to do it yourself. I just, I don’t think that’s the way to get in this industry. I think the way to get in as the trust people to make sure you hold on to the 339 00:48:31.830 –> 00:48:36.840 Anthony Johnson: Fear decisions and trust the right people and then send it the right time. So, so what we ended up doing was 340 00:48:36.900 –> 00:48:37.740 Anthony Johnson: We got together. 341 00:48:37.890 –> 00:48:50.970 Anthony Johnson: And now what happens is, we’re able to look over docking whether were directly involved, whether a little it again from directly involved, whether we send it out to someone you prefer, whether you send it out to you know some of the things we’re handling that we’re willing to take 342 00:48:52.560 –> 00:49:01.980 Anthony Johnson: We could, we can do all that. And we’re willing to happy to, you know, to facilitate a lot of information and validate with Steve saying I’ve worked with them long time now. On the technology side. 343 00:49:02.640 –> 00:49:09.690 Anthony Johnson: Marketing side, you know, we don’t really conflict brand marketing company, but I’ve known their processes. They do a really good job of 344 00:49:10.470 –> 00:49:15.360 Anthony Johnson: Making their own leads and making them from scratch. Yeah, not whenever they get full on bandwidth, like you’re saying 345 00:49:15.780 –> 00:49:21.720 Anthony Johnson: A lot of guys look at the sale and they put the sale over the, over the client that doesn’t know any better. And they, they just go grab 346 00:49:22.080 –> 00:49:26.100 Anthony Johnson: Garbage from anywhere they might be buying the garbage. The other guys selling for 1000 bucks a case on town. 347 00:49:26.820 –> 00:49:31.650 Anthony Johnson: You know, but I know Brian do that a lot of firms will just to make just fulfill those orders. 348 00:49:32.220 –> 00:49:38.250 Anthony Johnson: And I feel like sometimes a lot of firms will take stuff in the same way, where this isn’t really there thing. It’s not their litigation. 349 00:49:38.640 –> 00:49:44.550 Anthony Johnson: You know, but they, you know, they might be getting involved because uh you know they’re they’re small and they they want this, this little litigation, you know, 350 00:49:44.880 –> 00:49:52.170 Anthony Johnson: The guys that are big and have leverage. Either way, and strategic partnerships and and those guys can that’s a different story, but but when you’re dealing with guys that uh 351 00:49:52.980 –> 00:49:59.370 Anthony Johnson: You know they don’t know what they’re doing the space, like I said, there’s there’s 19 different ways to get screwed. So, so what we help with. And what I’ll focus on is 352 00:49:59.940 –> 00:50:12.180 Anthony Johnson: What I’m trying to say is, I’ve been down the path. I’ve been a small guy little literally small as you can get guy in Arkansas in a closet with 10 cases, you know, doing everything myself. I think my overhead was like 300 bucks of the time you imagine I didn’t 353 00:50:13.470 –> 00:50:14.010 Jim Onder: I wish. 354 00:50:14.490 –> 00:50:17.760 Anthony Johnson: Now we got 100 people and you know we don’t even want to talk about how much money we spend 355 00:50:19.050 –> 00:50:25.740 Anthony Johnson: But we’ve we’ve we’ve made all the mistakes and going and working with 400 different partners over time believing every story that we hear 356 00:50:26.580 –> 00:50:34.290 Anthony Johnson: Realizing people with bullshit, or they’re, they’re not actually doing their research and their science or they’re not involved and then going down the down the settlement path and say, man. 357 00:50:34.680 –> 00:50:38.940 Anthony Johnson: There’s a lot of leverage shifting. There’s a lot of self interested parties and a lot of things going on. So, 358 00:50:39.930 –> 00:50:47.190 Anthony Johnson: The bottom line is that, you know, that’s why we strategically got withdrawn. We wanted to make sure that their cases and they wanted to make sure their cases were looked at 359 00:50:47.460 –> 00:50:54.810 Anthony Johnson: Whether we’re involved or not, you know, as a handling firm and they had someone to check their criteria to make sure that we’re on the same page with what’s going on. 360 00:50:55.170 –> 00:51:02.940 Anthony Johnson: And I tell you what. There are very few if any of that I can think of, you know, marketing firms, I go to that extent to care about the quality and not just a sale. 361 00:51:03.360 –> 00:51:14.310 Anthony Johnson: And I like kudos to you guys for being on the scale that and mainly I say that is because, you know, I’m very careful of who I get involved with and that when the case, you know, from from a technology from the legitimacy of standpoint. 362 00:51:15.600 –> 00:51:20.910 Anthony Johnson: We wouldn’t even do that, you know, the end just to Mainers I’m saying that as well but but like I said 363 00:51:21.420 –> 00:51:30.600 Anthony Johnson: I won’t get into litigation front we do handle some now we do have attorneys in house. We do a lot of things that these guys that got to do, maybe in different locations, but definitely not their scale. 364 00:51:31.710 –> 00:51:40.140 Anthony Johnson: And and I want to focus on what we know and what we’re good at. And I think that’s where the technology and the management of cases comes in a huge way because even 365 00:51:40.530 –> 00:51:47.580 Anthony Johnson: One last point is even some people have, you know, they, they really trust this guy, and it’s not somebody they know it’s not something that we would recommend normally working with and 366 00:51:48.120 –> 00:51:53.940 Anthony Johnson: What and sometimes they take a lower piece for doing it. And what I tell them, and what I told Steve was like, Listen, we told a lot of people 367 00:51:54.930 –> 00:51:57.930 Anthony Johnson: You can still work with that guy, if you want to. But guess what, 368 00:51:58.320 –> 00:52:08.700 Anthony Johnson: We can still get, you know, maybe a bigger splash. We have a better relationship we can get those updates for you. We can we can tell, we can actually send to that same guy often I’m not talking to these guys are much more fair about you have these 369 00:52:09.240 –> 00:52:18.270 Anthony Johnson: strict about it. There’s some guys out there that will, you know, give you 20% or do some weird thing, you know, just because they know they can. And so there’s a lot of situations. If you have a preference. 370 00:52:19.470 –> 00:52:24.660 Anthony Johnson: There’s not necessarily like originating referring firm and just a strict handling firm. Sometimes you want to 371 00:52:25.020 –> 00:52:30.960 Anthony Johnson: You want to wait and you want to look at it. You want to be able to manage it. And that’s the part that’s part. And that’s the part we could help with 372 00:52:31.350 –> 00:52:36.270 Anthony Johnson: And then sometimes you have to wait till daughter comes out or MTL comes out or you know who’s getting involved from a 373 00:52:36.720 –> 00:52:40.560 Anthony Johnson: Number of cases standpoint that has leveraged and then you want to pick your horse and so 374 00:52:40.980 –> 00:52:49.620 Anthony Johnson: So that’s something we can help with as well. And I think is very symbiotic you know it’s continuing to work with guys like Jen dawn and a lot of trial lawyers around the country. That’s not where to get away from 375 00:52:49.980 –> 00:52:55.560 Anthony Johnson: We want to make sure the client gets with the best people marketers get with the best people spend money and people don’t lose money because 376 00:52:55.920 –> 00:53:06.930 Anthony Johnson: Every dollar goes out the door that base that they might sell we’re financially interested into like I care about every, every penny in every case that comes out. So when it comes to fall off and attrition and data. 377 00:53:08.040 –> 00:53:17.010 Anthony Johnson: You know, I was in applause and Arkansas with the straw hat. So you know I lose one case. So that was a. That was my $300 op X for, you know, eight months. 378 00:53:18.240 –> 00:53:26.220 Anthony Johnson: But now, now that that ingrained history makes me really appreciate the value of this, be honest about it. We’re not gonna lie to you about it. 379 00:53:27.300 –> 00:53:34.680 Anthony Johnson: But, you know, if you don’t care. And if you have a ton of money and you don’t and you don’t really appreciate this. And you appreciate the client relationships, then 380 00:53:35.490 –> 00:53:41.430 Anthony Johnson: Some people have a tendency to cut things too soon, and not want to have that operates, because that’s, that’s what we focused on being really great at 381 00:53:44.700 –> 00:53:46.050 Don Worley: Something he says 382 00:53:47.820 –> 00:53:48.990 Don Worley: He says that support. 383 00:53:54.390 –> 00:53:57.570 Don Worley: Is not video, you get an A or about where they are. 384 00:53:59.250 –> 00:53:59.790 Don Worley: Now, no, no. 385 00:54:01.980 –> 00:54:02.280 Don Worley: On 386 00:54:03.420 –> 00:54:07.020 Don Worley: My friend, or send out a word. When you say we have 387 00:54:11.880 –> 00:54:12.810 Don Worley: To ask around 388 00:54:14.490 –> 00:54:15.480 Don Worley: Birthdays, am I 389 00:54:16.500 –> 00:54:20.340 Don Worley: Am I going to know what’s going on on cases feedback. 390 00:54:22.860 –> 00:54:23.220 Don Worley: That’s not 391 00:54:26.250 –> 00:54:27.930 Don Worley: Something somebody disagree with me on 392 00:54:29.430 –> 00:54:33.330 Don Worley: My mind you’re doing this is most cases. 393 00:54:34.500 –> 00:54:34.860 Don Worley: In the 394 00:54:36.540 –> 00:54:40.350 Don Worley: Same thing dollar around HR 395 00:54:41.760 –> 00:54:47.070 Don Worley: Say, if you have access to your ear. So if you’re going to get the same money. 396 00:54:48.150 –> 00:54:48.660 Don Worley: More money. 397 00:54:50.430 –> 00:54:50.670 Don Worley: Right. 398 00:54:51.810 –> 00:54:52.050 Don Worley: So, 399 00:54:55.980 –> 00:54:56.310 Don Worley: Right. 400 00:55:01.620 –> 00:55:01.800 Don Worley: So, 401 00:55:04.080 –> 00:55:04.770 Don Worley: I can go in some 402 00:55:08.550 –> 00:55:13.470 Don Worley: Cases, so you don’t send it out. He is hearing it. And they say, here’s your 403 00:55:49.380 –> 00:55:51.120 Don Worley: Around the end of the year. 404 00:55:53.190 –> 00:55:55.680 Don Worley: And I’m gonna say three years. 405 00:56:04.680 –> 00:56:06.810 Don Worley: She wants to know, contact information. 406 00:56:08.700 –> 00:56:09.060 Don Worley: Eric 407 00:56:10.800 –> 00:56:26.130 Erik Smelser: I sent the contact information to Darlene. But if you guys would each want to go around very quickly and just let folks know the best way to get ahold of you, Don. We’re having some pretty significant audio problems on your end, just so you know. 408 00:56:26.430 –> 00:56:34.530 Anthony Johnson: Yeah, I’ll go first. I fix that to both their points. Jim talked about investments and you make an investment, you know, just give some random did your money and say, hey, let me get a return you know 409 00:56:34.800 –> 00:56:39.000 Anthony Johnson: That’s kind of the point I think you you pick your financial advisor, all that kind of stuff. And so 410 00:56:39.450 –> 00:56:48.000 Anthony Johnson: Yeah, this is the same way of you, you gotta trust the person watching over your, your investment interest to have it giving you advice. So my contacts Anthony at your attorney com 411 00:56:48.870 –> 00:56:59.280 Anthony Johnson: You know, BP got my contact info. We’re really deepening some strategic partnerships and happy to talk to anybody about anything from starting the firm managing cases and and what I think what’s going on as well. 412 00:57:00.270 –> 00:57:07.800 Steve Smith: So I’d like to just chime in here to real quick, and I’ll get my contact info. The biggest advice I can say for anybody is 413 00:57:08.130 –> 00:57:23.670 Steve Smith: Don’t put all your eggs in one basket. Don’t have a get rich quick plan of, like, oh, wow, our gym with made talc sounds so good. I put my money in all wash my hands of it and get rich. You should really put together five year plan almost, of where you want to see yourself. 414 00:57:25.020 –> 00:57:30.930 Steve Smith: And diversify as much as you can and take the information like what each person on your shared with 415 00:57:32.100 –> 00:57:42.210 Steve Smith: A lot of consulting on the tours that come along and in the short term towards the local towards but diversified diversified diversify and most importantly 416 00:57:42.750 –> 00:57:52.320 Steve Smith: Consulting called mass torts. It all works by a bunch of people coming together and working as a whole. So if you’re brand new and you’re wanting to be passive 417 00:57:52.740 –> 00:58:01.140 Steve Smith: Do not walk into this blind. Right. There’s a lot of people I know that me and our team, take a very consultative approach. 418 00:58:01.620 –> 00:58:13.290 Steve Smith: To working with firms and advising them in mass torts, right. So each of us could have literally spent an entire hour of sharing horror stories of how we almost lost everything because I’m asked to 419 00:58:13.290 –> 00:58:13.620 Jim Onder: Work with 420 00:58:13.890 –> 00:58:22.890 Steve Smith: Genius minds and insight everything else. There’s been some pitfalls and so you don’t need to make those same mistakes, right, like, make sure you’re getting control. 421 00:58:23.460 –> 00:58:32.880 Steve Smith: By unbiased opinions and views and from experts that have proven records to help you and give you as much insight as possible. 422 00:58:33.780 –> 00:58:39.900 Steve Smith: You know, that’s why I’ve kind of, you know, with Ken got these speakers together because each and every person on here. 423 00:58:40.290 –> 00:58:59.040 Steve Smith: You know, as a lot of really, really good insight and knowledge to pass along on these things, and are all straight shooter. So you can call any one of the Julian will let you know the good, the bad, and the ugly if anybody needs. My contact information is Steve at get cases GTC ASP s com 424 00:59:03.300 –> 00:59:03.720 Jim Onder: Yep. 425 00:59:04.800 –> 00:59:05.640 Jim Onder: Jim under 426 00:59:06.690 –> 00:59:26.370 Jim Onder: My email address is under om D er at under law com but best way to get ahold of this is my cell phone, which is 314-503-7075 again 345037075 again if you need the medical literature. If you need a questionnaire or intake information. 427 00:59:27.600 –> 00:59:36.780 Jim Onder: Just give me a call. I’m always happy to tell you what my opinion on cases. And you know why I think it’s good, why I think it’s bad. What I think you should do or not do and 428 00:59:37.860 –> 00:59:39.480 Jim Onder: You know, always happy to share 429 00:59:43.440 –> 00:59:44.460 Steve Smith: Dr. Robot. 430 00:59:47.490 –> 00:59:48.210 Don Worley: Yeah. 431 00:59:50.850 –> 00:59:53.490 Steve Smith: You still sound like a robot, but we’ll break it out. 432 00:59:54.510 –> 00:59:58.890 Don Worley: Appropriately must be the internet here. You don’t want to shut it down, shut everything 433 01:00:01.500 –> 01:00:01.710 Don Worley: Down. 434 01:00:03.630 –> 01:00:04.350 Don Worley: A social media. 435 01:00:10.740 –> 01:00:11.130 Don Worley: Expert 436 01:00:25.770 –> 01:00:38.430 Steve Smith: Alright, so I believe that that’s everybody and we have all the contact information we’ve answered all the questions. So if anybody needs any assistance any guidance. Everybody here has kind of given their contact information and and there’s an open book. So we really look forward 437 01:00:39.030 –> 01:00:49.680 Steve Smith: To talking with anybody that needs any help any guidance today or anytime in the future. And I just want to give another thanks to fill them up for asking us to do this and allowing us to come on here and speak today. 438 01:00:51.030 –> 01:00:53.640 Erik Smelser: You’ve Anthony, Don, Jim, thank you. 439 01:00:53.700 –> 01:00:56.760 Erik Smelser: Very much for your time. Very, very informative. 440 01:00:57.540 –> 01:01:01.500 Erik Smelser: Before we let you guys go any other final questions before we go folks. 441 01:01:05.370 –> 01:01:20.820 Erik Smelser: I don’t see any final questions, again, a reminder, a replay of this webinar will be available on the members resources section of the film is site within 24 hours and of course direct all your questions to one of the four great panelists, we had today. Thank you, gentlemen. 442 01:01:21.570 –> 01:01:21.840 Anthony Johnson: Thank you. 443 01:01:22.410 –> 01:01:22.950 Thank you. 444 01:01:25.560 –> 01:01:26.100 Erik Smelser: Bye, folks.